Lots of broken arms in the HASHTAG GIVEASHIFT piece

"BrtStlnd" (BrtStlnd)
06/24/2014 at 15:35 • Filed to: cobbssavelives, goodguywithagun

So many commenters are suffering dislocated shoulders and tweeked backs patting themselves on the back for driving a car with a manual transmission.

The argument that bothers me the most is the "It's safer because I can choose what gear is best during an emergency maneuver." Seriously? You think that you'll be able to execute a shift(s) and escape faster than stomping on a pedal and letting the car pick? Think what you want but that is just an inflated sense of your own skill level talking.

DISCUSSION (74)

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:37

I bought a manual because it's fun, and that's about it. lol

Having said that, the death of the manual makes sense with the progression of the new automatic transmissions.

Victorious Secret > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:38

The whole "Manuals are dying, autos suck, please save manuals" article bullshit is how I can tell a writer is struggling to come up with a proper article to write on.

Its all pathetic and its all a circlejerk to rival all circlejerks. You'd think that the only thing these guys have is fact that they drive a manual and thats the only thing worth living for and if you don't, you're an inferior peasant who should take the bus.

EL_ULY > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:38

"but in Europe, everyone drives manual trans and nobody gets in accidents. You can't eat a burger and drive stick lol dumb fat Americans."

-Youtube style comment

Jagvar > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:39

Both of my cars have automatics. No regrets. Come at me, all you mañuels.

CRider > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:39

No no BrtStlnd, automatics all take a full two minutes to decide whether or not to shift in an emergency, and then they're so to do so slow to do so you lose power to the wheels for 15 seconds as they change gear. Automatics are literally trying to kill you. They are the enemy.

BrtStlnd > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
06/24/2014 at 15:40

They are fun, I totally agree. I've had a manual car for the last 5 years in my garage, but I have no doubt that I'm the liability in emergency situations, not my transmission, whatever it is.

BrtStlnd > EL_ULY
06/24/2014 at 15:41

YOU FORGOT TO ADD A PINCH OF DIESEL SMUGNESS AND HATCHBACK SMUGNESS TO YOUR RECIPE

BrtStlnd > Victorious Secret
06/24/2014 at 15:44

That is a bell that deserves to be rung at least once a day in oppo... well something about the Prius AND THEN something about manual transmissions. Oh and "look at this piece of shit car, isn't it so Jalop?"

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:44

Agreed. I do believe that having a manual will make most people better drivers, in that it forces more attention to be focused on driving and helps you learn vehicle control a lot better. However, in emergency situations it is unlikely that most people have the skill to make significant enough use out of their manual gearbox that it will change the outcome of the accident.

BrtStlnd > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
06/24/2014 at 15:45

It keeps your hands occupied and off your phone which is always a positive.

Decay buys too many beaters > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:46

Meh, I drive manuals because I have yet to experience an automatic with as much driver involvement. That being said I have not yet tried this latest crop of DCTs which are supposed to be spectacular, but I cannot see myself getting rid of the "man pedal" anytime soon.

...though the CVT in my scooter is lovely :)

Crocket Bernet > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
06/24/2014 at 15:48

Not always true, one of my buddies got into 6 collisions in his manual jetta. All of them were his fault

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:48

You pulled me in with south park...damn! I will say that I for one don't understand why (aside from stop and go traffic) any car guy/girl would ever CHOOSE an automatic. I'm not sure why you would call it smug to prefer a manual, but then again I don't read comments on here much (maybe people shoot their mouths off?).

Btw it is a fact that you have more control of your car with a manual over even the best automatic...assuming of course you have ability. Plus it is fun and keeps you engaged in driving, which is good for my add. :)

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Crocket Bernet
06/24/2014 at 15:49

"most people"

Some people are just shitty drivers no matter what.

Imirrelephant > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:49

So much this! Especially the "isn't it so Jalop?" bit! I thought the motto was Drive Free or Die not Drive a Brown Diesel v12 Manual Miata Shooting Brake by Pininfarina w/ KERS or Die...

anonsagainstanonymous > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:51

Hasn't the manual been "on the verge" in america for decades now, though?

I like manuals for the same reason I like older cars. Personal preferences. also sideways. and I'm a hipster purist. and because I'm European.

also because I'm a technophobe when it comes to my cars.

(That's also why I don't really understand why some people focus so much on the "performance and economy" part. If people on here was so obsessed with performance and economy, they'd not geek out over old cars as much as they do. Which annoys me a lot about the anti stance folks as well. Let people enjoy their cars the way they want to enjoy them.)

BrtStlnd > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
06/24/2014 at 15:51

It's a fact, huh? That's some good argumentin', hoss.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:55

And so starts the circle jerk on the circle jerk of the circle jerk and the circle jerk of the manual circle jerk... this is getting my jimmies all rustley.

The Daily Hoon > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
06/24/2014 at 15:56

What manual transmissioned cars do you drive or have you driven?

The Daily Hoon > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:56

BE A BETTER DRIVE THEN, GOSH.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:57

Thanks!

Bird > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:58

Automatics shift quicker than a manual? Not unless it's a fancy new dual clutch type auto set-up.

Letting the car pick isn't always best. I won't say the argument that it's safer is right (that depends on the driver), but the lag from your average auto-box, even new ones (not fancy dual clutch set-ups), is pretty bad. I can drop a clutch just as fast as I can slam my foot on the gas...drop the clutch and you're doing a burn-out, stab the pedal in an auto, pause, wait for it to choose a gear, bog, and then go. I can honestly say, I have never owned an auto that would perform a needed downshift quicker than I could in a manual. I've owned probably 5-10 autos and even more manual cars. Obviously, in any situation the drivers reaction is more important than the cars, but those reactions being equal, in my experience the manual would win.

Personally, I'll take the manual. I feel it is safer, but that's because hopefully you're more engaged in driving. I think actively working the controls of something will keep you more focused than just guiding the wheel. That's kind of the biggest part of it. If you drive a manual in traffic everyday (I live in LA, and often commute in a manual), you're always poised and ready to shift. The car is always a few moments away from you needing to provide an input to keep things on course. It's not the same in an auto. You only need one foot and a knee to drive it, that way you can yell at the kids in the back, get them a juice box, wipe their nose, and put their DVD on so they'll shut up...All while barely paying any attention to the road. So if you're the dude in the minivan, you have to stop what you're doing and go back to focusing on driving when the emergency situation presents itself...if you're in the manual, you're already 'driving' when the emergency situation occurs. I know that's an extreme example, but I do personally feel that in general manual drivers are more focused on the act of driving. I also know there are idiots on both sides of that, but that's my personal take on it.

The Daily Hoon > Victorious Secret
06/24/2014 at 15:59

Your proper use of proper was a cherry on top of this circle-jerk call out. Bravo.

Brewman15 > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 15:59

I have a manual. My wife has a manual. I prefer driving manual. That being said, if you want to drive an auto go right ahead. I don't care. However, I do care when cars I would like to buy are no longer available with a manual. So, yes. I am annoyed that the auto has essentially taken over the entire market. I also hate that most auto drivers (especially on Jalopnik) get so pissy about my desire to have a manual and insist upon me just to start buying an auto like they did. One of the best parts about the auto market place is the tons of choices out there. However, the one choice I value above anything else is being taken away, and I'm supposed to just sit quiet and let it happen.

By the way, when driving in heavy traffic, which is on a daily basis, and I see brake lights up ahead, I do often kick down a gear or two as I also apply brakes to slow down. So, I do think it is safer. However, you are right. In a panic stop scenario or something similar, I more than likely would not have enough time to hit the brakes let alone downshift.

For Sweden > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:01

Meanwhile, the Look at the Circlejerk Circlejerk remains the biggest Circlejerk

Crocket Bernet > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
06/24/2014 at 16:01

Exactly my point; I didn't say everyone who drives a manual will get into multiple accidents. There are always people who shouldn't grace the road with their presence and no amount of stick and clutch will ever change that.

BrtStlnd > Bird
06/24/2014 at 16:03

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Bird > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:05

BrtStlnd > For Sweden
06/24/2014 at 16:06

Don't hate on my large circlejerk, that's just good genetics.

Tripper > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:08

I wouldn't say that it's safer, but the driving experience isn't the same. For me driving is a chore without a clutch pedal.

PowderHound > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:08

50/50 awd in subarus with manual rather than 70/30 or something with autos!

BrtStlnd > PowderHound
06/24/2014 at 16:10

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 16:11

Well I've driven a good amount (some only briefly): I learned on a VW GOlf gl (my first car) and immediately fell in love with having a manual. Since then I've driven a WRX, 350z (very briefly), Wrangler (owned 7 years), Civic, Fiat x1/9 (I think I drove it, honestly don't remember now lol that was a junker), miata (currently own), and I'm sure I'm forgetting others...

2222222222212 > Jagvar
06/24/2014 at 16:12

You'll be a sitting duck when your shift lock button malfunctions!

teehee.

The Daily Hoon > Bird
06/24/2014 at 16:12

You only need one foot and a knee to drive it

Bingo. This is what makes an automatic safer in traffic. If you're focused, you only have to worry about maneuvering - not shifting and maneuvering. It's an insane jump in logic to think that everyone who drives an automatic is all of a sudden not paying attention to anything on the road. Get lost with that straw man.

The Daily Hoon > For Sweden
06/24/2014 at 16:17

O captain, my captain!

waymoe > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 16:19

Canada is a british territory fuck face.

waymoe > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:20

You are a liability unless you have insurance. Then you are a liability with insurance.

The Daily Hoon > waymoe
06/24/2014 at 16:20

Protector of the realm.

The Daily Hoon > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:23

BeaterGT > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:24

Can someone with an auto come give me a massage or can I not trust you with that either?!

BrtStlnd > BeaterGT
06/24/2014 at 16:26

Is that a happy ending joke?

waymoe > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:28

Jesus christ don't you know that the average person is a stone cold ninja? They do not panic, they do not freeze, they do not draw a blank in emergency situations. They simply remember their Spetsnaz training and execute the exact necessary maneuver in the required amount of time with zero mistakes every time it is necessary. You should go back to north korea you communist.

CAR_IS_MI > Jagvar
06/24/2014 at 16:28

You leave Manuel and the little jalapeno over his 'n' out of this! He's just sitting quietly in front of the Home Depot taking his siesta waiting for a brave soul to take him home.

crowmolly > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:30

Manuals are less popular because modern automatics do a great job. I don't see how that can even spark an argument. The "slushbox" days of stock 2 speed powerglides and lack of beefy clutch packs/steels and high stall converters are long gone, and even the torque converter itself is surpassed in a lot of situations.

My fun car is a manual because, quite frankly, I find the manual more fun and a hard 1-2 shift is magic on the asphalt to me. But that doesn't make it better or worse than something else. As a daily driver I would get tired of the clutch pedal quickly.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 16:31

Automatic...Safer? Not for me. After I learned and became familiarized with a manual; shifting became muscle memory. It keeps me focused on driving but isn't keeping me from being able to maneuver.

I know that modern autos are much much much better than they used to be, but still the 'death of manuals' (which is bs btw) could be attributed to the fact that the majority of car buyers have no interest in driving or cars in general.

BrtStlnd > crowmolly
06/24/2014 at 16:32

NUANCE AND COMMON SENSE IS SUCH A SWEET RESPITE, thank you.

The Daily Hoon > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
06/24/2014 at 16:33

That was a lot of words to explain you don't know what a straw man is.

waymoe > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:33

The valid argument used to be "its a cheaper option and gets better mileage." That argument no longer applies. Now the only reason is "because I wanted one" and thats ok too. Who gives a shit, this is how the Rwandan genocide started.

crowmolly > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:33

Based on the fireballs being thrown around I can't even tell if you are agreeing with or ripping on my post. LOL.

oldirtybootz > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:33

Pretty sure the point of it is that people aren't buying sticks so automakers are building fewer and fewer. I'd like to have the option to buy one down the road but the way it's going it seems I may eventually be forced into an auto/dual-clutch if I want a new car.

Since biying my car, my first stick, I've had to hear countless times how stupid it is to have to shift from my friends who just don't get it. I love rowing my own, I don't think I could go back to two pedals, unless it's something like an Alfa 4C or GT-R where my love for the vehicle itself outweights the fact that it's flappy paddle only.

BrtStlnd > crowmolly
06/24/2014 at 16:34

Sorry, I am actually agreeing with you.

waymoe > crowmolly
06/24/2014 at 16:34

He is agreeing with you because it is a valid, well-tempered reply. I also agree with you, so you've got that going for you.

BrtStlnd > waymoe
06/24/2014 at 16:35

"Because I wanted one" is a perfectly good reason for buying a manual.

waymoe > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:38

Exactly. Waymoe loves you and your sweet Vette.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 16:38

Ha I cannot say that I have a clue what a straw man is.

BrtStlnd > waymoe
06/24/2014 at 16:39

Thanks for that handful of salt in my open wound, waymoe.

waymoe > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:40

I hope you sold it for exactly the amount you wanted and not a dollar or several thousand less.

The Daily Hoon > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/
06/24/2014 at 16:41

Basically it's an argument based on a fallacy where you take what someone said and use it out of context to prove your own point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

In this case, your straw man is that you believe that all people who drive automatics will be texting and driving and yelling at their kids, therefore making them inherently unsafe compared to your engagement driving manual.

It's all good though, cheers brother.

BrtStlnd > waymoe
06/24/2014 at 16:45

Kinja'd!!!

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > waymoe
06/24/2014 at 16:46

It still applies with used cars, which is all I will ever buy (just a preference...don't call me an elitist for that too!). I admit that all it comes down to with modern cars is preference. Me...I'm feeling lost in this digital sea.

Pixel > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 16:49

There are three cars in our driveway, and all of them are manuals. And dear GOD are the people in those comments full of themselves.

Manuals are fun. They make I & the G/F's Scion xB's feel light and zippy and not the underpowered(108hp FTW!) econoboxes(literally on the box part) they actually are.

The '64 pickup is so completely basic it would feel wrong to have it with anything but a manual.

Automatics don't immediately make a car junk. Automatic drivers aren't immediately lazy inattentive latte-swilling slobs.

Manuals aren't amazing boxes filled with cogs & magic that make you completely attuned to your vehicle and the road. They are a way of changing the ratio that the wheels are turning relative to the engine RPM. Sometimes they are a fun way, sometime they are a pain in the ass when slow moving traffic is moving that exact speed that is too fast for 1st and lugs out 2nd.

Buy & use what makes you happy and/or gives you the least stress.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 16:54

OK, got ya. Thanks for explaining. I was only offering my personal experience with driving manuals and automatics. With my ADD, I almost need to be involved or else I probably will lose concentration. Cheers.

Kate's Dirty Sister > PowderHound
06/24/2014 at 17:04

Bird > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 17:23

Thanks for taking that the completely wrong way. Not a straw man argument. I'm saying the auto gives you the option of not paying attention. Notice I didn't talk about 'all people'. 'it's a fact', or other such things.

Get lost with your attitude.

The Daily Hoon > Bird
06/24/2014 at 17:32

Your argument is that people don't have the option to be distracted if they drive a manual. That is 100% false and untrue. It's a straw man. Thanks for playing.

Bird > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 17:37

I think you should work on reading comprehension...notice these key phrases:

"(that depends on the driver)"

"because hopefully you're more engaged in driving" (do I need to define hopefully for you?...I'll give you a hint...it doesn't mean "I think it's a fact".)

"I also know there are idiots on both sides of that, but that's my personal take on it."

Bird > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 17:37

Thanks for playing too!

The Daily Hoon > Bird
06/24/2014 at 19:14

Yes, your personal take is you set up a straw man to prove your point. Good work.

TwoFortified > BrtStlnd
06/24/2014 at 19:56

Ok, so, there's a strong part of me that wants to fly into the whole SAVE THE M/T side of things...

...

...But then, I realized that, fine, auto manufacturers may, very well, stop making manual transmissions in new cars. It's not like they're gonna go out and crush all of the currently-existing ones. Many of the people that are defending the M/T seem to be providing some sort of anecdotal "I drive a manual, and it's fun!" etc etc. Good. Me too. I drive a 90's Nissan. It's fun as hell. It wouldn't be nearly as fun in Automatic. Automatic Transmissions in the 90s sucked ass.

The A/Ts today are pretty good, and seem to be getting better. Hell, if they can work out the kinks with the A/Ts (yes, there are still kinks), maybe the semi-autos will be fun too.

Anecdotally, I got to drive a 2015 Mazda CX-5 rental recently, which, of course, was an automatic. It did have that whole semi-auto setup though. I gave that a shot, and the delay between shifts was silly.

Now, that sucked. If Al Gore snapped his filthy buttscratchers and turned every transmission into this 2015 Mazda transmission, I'd be pissed.

...but there are still manual options out there (where they still make sense), and, who knows? This semi-auto crap might be halfway decent in 5-10 years.

In the meantime, go buy a 90's Nissan for your M/T needs. You won't be disappointed (YMMV).

Bird > The Daily Hoon
06/24/2014 at 23:03

Kinja'd!!!

The Daily Hoon > Bird
06/24/2014 at 23:22

You've failed at using a meme.

Bird > The Daily Hoon
06/25/2014 at 02:03

Better than failing at reading comprehension. I gave my opinion, and my own anecdotal evidence. Saying it was my opinion, and personal preference. That's not a straw man argument. There are no studies with facts to argue. Only opinions, and anecdotal evidence. Those things differ from a straw man argument. The difference eludes you.

"I won't say the argument that it's safer is right...Personally, I'll take the manual. I feel it is safer..." Maybe I should have included "safer for me", to make it clearer to you, that I did not think it is always the case. Even though I stated, I was giving an extreme stereotype as an example, and and used the phrase "I know there are idiots on both sides of that."

Sorry for sharing my feelings on the issue on the internet.

The Daily Hoon > Bird
06/25/2014 at 08:24

Agree to disagree. Ciao.